Customer-Driven Growth with Karen Young from Oui the People

Kristen:

Hey Karen, thanks so much for being on the show. How are you doing today?

Karen:

I am doing great. It's Friday. So you know that's always a good boost to the old tired bones. But yeah, I'm doing really well. I feel like it's May already, but it's first full week of January. It's kind of insane.

Kristen:

Well I also feel like yesterday was Christmas and today it's almost halfway through January and I'm like, "What? Where did, what?"

Karen:

Yeah, exactly.

Kristen:

Where did it go? Slow down 2020, I'm not ready for this yet.

Karen:

I know, I'm like why are we speeding through the decade already? I can't take it.

Kristen:

It just started. Well, I'm so excited to have you on. You and I talked about this a little before I hit the record button, but Karen was actually one of the first people who ever just organically reached out to me and said she was a fan of the podcast, which meant I went and bought a bottle of champagne and popped it.

Kristen:

And I was like, "Oh my God, someone's listening to me. They find me funny." It was one of the best days I had all in 2019. So of course then, when I saw you guys went through this whole rebrand with Oui The People, I said "Okay, we got to have her on. She's an amazing founder and they're doing amazing stuff."

Kristen:

So just to kind of jump right in, can you tell us just a little bit about yourself and a little bit about the brand, Oui The People?

Karen:

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I am a serial entrepreneur, and I'm an absolute avid lover of like everything skincare.

Karen: 

A long time ago I actually had a really beautiful design brand that focused on home goods. And then I got the opportunity to work for Estee Lauder, based actually on the work that they had seen me do with the previous brand.

Karen: 

Before that I was in fashion. So I've always been surrounded by absolutely beautiful products, fantastic design. I have a real eye for aesthetics, and I just absolutely love making things, and I love making things and I love thinking about how they connect to people. So that's what got me to Oui The People.

Kristen:

I am already going to highlight something that you said that I'm writing down currently. That I can assume it's going to be a theme through this entire podcast episode. It's also a theme through entire podcast. I say it all the time.

Kristen: 

The fact that you just said you're very interested in how things connect to people.

Karen:

Yeah.

Kristen:

This is going to come up, I'm sure a lot in our conversation where I'm just going to keep going back to that quote and saying, "Well, this is why the brand is growing this way. It's working, this is why a retention, this is how you approach retention. How you approach everything and do it well."

Kristen: 

So listeners, I apologize in advance for how many times I'm going to come back to that, but I'm also not sorry because it's already most likely the most important note made in this entire interview

Karen:

Yay. All right, I can go back to bed now.

Kristen:

We're done. We're good. That's great.

Karen:

That's my Ted Talk.

Kristen:

That's my Ted Talk, thank you for coming. I love it. So how did you end up then kind of transitioning into Oui The People? And, where did the idea come from?

Karen:

Yeah, so we originally started as We Shave, and we started in a very sort of interesting way. I personally have always had very, very sensitive skin. And I found that shaving was like the most heartbreaking thing that I did on like a daily, weekly, monthly basis. I mean it was just horrendous. The response from my skin, it was just like if I used anything else that made my skin react like this, I would toss it immediately. But because it was razor and there were so few options available on the market. I sort of felt myself ... I found myself stuck with it. And as a result, I was stuck with really irritated skin, really, really bad ingrown hairs, and just finding myself like in the thick of like New York in August, like 105 degrees down in the bowels of the subway. I'm standing there like with jeans plastered to my skin because I didn't feel confident in showing my skin off.

Karen:

And when I started working for Estee Lauder, I kind of really looked around at the products, and the thought process behind the products and the efficacy that sort of was the core of every product that they made. And, that same thought occurred to me and it was just like, "Gosh, if this were a face cream, this thing would have been tossed." Like not only would it have been tossed, but I would've like went back to the manufacturer and been like, "You've got to be kidding me, like I've got burns and this is absolutely awful."

Karen:

And so, I just kind of sat down and I thought this is like something that has been plaguing me since I was young. Is anyone else experiencing this? And if they are like, gosh, if I can even find just like 50 people who are experiencing that, and I could make it better, that would be absolutely amazing.

Karen:

And so I started the journey to that. But I started first by getting to understand our customer and basically, I had no customers at that time, but it was like understand who the customer would be and like really getting a sense of what was at the core of their needs.

Karen:

I knew mine, but that's a bad way to start a business, right? To be like, "Hey, I've got this problem only."

Karen:

And so it was just like, okay, if I could find other people who did, what were their real concerns at the bottom of that? What, what is it that really bothers them? And, what could I do better?

Karen:

And so I basically spent two years just like really, like while I was working full-time, sorry Estee Lauder. Just getting to know that, who that customer would be and understanding that audience.

Karen:

I did a bit of beta testing over the course of the couple of years. And then, we were able to take all of that feedback and launch the razor that we have become known for, which is the Rose Gold Sensitive Skin, or the single blade safety razor.

Karen:

And you know, we have just always really, really been very hardcore about understanding our customer and following them along on their journey. And as we got to know them better, what happened is they started coming to us and telling us more about what they wanted outside of shaving. And our body care brand developed in there over the course of the next couple of years.

Karen:

And just starting to understand who these people were as women, and what they were looking for in their lives and who they were beyond just an LTV for us, or you know what I mean? Like a convenient metric.

Karen: 

We started to get that sense and we were able to pull all of that into what became Oui The People. And the idea there, is that we really want to change the culture of beauty. We want to change the language of beauty. We don't believe that in order to basically build a relationship with our customer, with women, that we have to degrade them or denigrate them.

Karen: 

It's more about building people up and really challenging decades of beauty that I think has been shaming us actually, you know? And how can we take that and marry it with incredible product, innovative and absolutely high-performing products for the body.

Kristen: 

Man, you said so many things there that I am so excited to unpack as you know my style and my approach to things. I'm sure that you know that when you say these things, it's like making my heart sing.

Kristen: 

Because you guys built a business for the customer first and I don't think that's very common actually. Like you said, there's a lot of convenience and metrics. There's a lot of convenience in saying, "Okay, it costs us this much to acquire and this is how long can keep them."

Kristen:

But really that's just kind of a convenient top layer to look at it. When you said from the get go, we're going to look all the way deep down into the emotions and the stories that our customers are living.

Kristen: 

So I'm curious when you went on this kind of journey to go talk and find if there are more people who deal with this issue. Which I was a gymnast my entire life, which means I wore leotards my entire life. Certain areas need to be cleaned when you're in a leotard.

Kristen:

And I am a 25 year old who will, I refuse to put a razor anywhere near that area because for so many years I was forced to do it because it was kind of degraded in a way that you couldn't not shave that area. And it was constant razor burn and horrible, horrible situation.

Kristen:

And now I'm to the point where I'm so scarred by it that I'm like, "Well I'm not, I'm just never going to do it again." I won't do it. So this is, I just want to give like a personal story. I really, excuse me, feel this problem like this connects with me. This is why I'm so excited to talk about it.

Kristen:

So I'm curious how you went out and found these people and talk to them? And when you were doing it, was there anything that really surprised you that kind of came up out of those conversations?

Karen:

Yeah, so I think ... So the first way that we did it was interestingly enough, it's just kind of like started scouting online, Instagram, and just really like looking at who was talking about skin care. Who was talking about green beauty and that sort of thing. And, the way that I thought about it was, it would be very hard for me to, without not a dollar spent on any sort of paid acquisition, right. We didn't spend any money for years.

Karen:

It would be very hard for me to reach enough of an audience, and like sort of just suddenly be credible. And so I said, "Well, who are the people who have an audience and they are credible? And even if it's a small audience, I don't care. Like, I don't need to reach millions of people right now. I need to reach like a hundred people.

Karen:

And so I went on Instagram and I started having conversations with some of the more eco-friendly and green I think is a term they use, beauty bloggers at the time. And I woke up one day and there were orders from our little website and I was just like, "Wait, what does happened?"

Karen:

And, I think I just connected with them and I actually wanted to know who they were and what they cared about, and what their lives were actually like. That they didn't, they never even asked for product. They just bought it.

Karen:

And then I turned around, it was like two weeks after that, and they blogged about it and then I got more orders in and there was like, "Oh, I discovered this and it's the most amazing thing and this is the founder behind it." And so on, and I was just like, "Wait, what just happened?"

Kristen: 

You're like, "Whoa, this is happening. Okay, we're off."

Karen:

Like, "Wait a minute. This is pretty cool." And then they said, "Hey, we think what you're doing is really cool and we actually haven't seen anyone talk about this, or do it from this particular approach. Like, would you like to come and hang out with us?" And I was just like, "Yeah."

Kristen: 

"Yes, please."

Karen:

Where I come from, they pay a lot of money for this or whatever. It's like, sprinting from like my full-time job after work or whatever, and like hanging out with green beauty bloggers. And they helped to spread that story.

Kristen:

I love that.

Karen:

Yeah. Yeah. It was amazing. And it was so, it was as authentic as it could possibly be.

Kristen:

Yeah. And that's what I was going to point out is that it really goes to prove the value of authentic authentic- oh my goodness. I've been saying this for a too many times. Authentic- Oh my goodness. Authentic- I can't do it. Authenticity, there we go.

Karen:

Nice.

Kristen: 

Oh my goodness. I would say that I would edit that out, but I'm going to leave it just so all the listeners can know that I'm a real human being behind here that just can't say the word authenticity at 12 o'clock on a Friday anymore.

Karen: 

I listen to all of your stuff like without a lick of an edit, and it's amazing.

Kristen: 

I mean, if I'm going to preach authenticity, I got to give it to the listeners on my end too.

Kristen:  

What I think I was trying to say is that it really shows how powerful that deeper connection is, that without even spending money, without even asking people to go buy a product, without them asking for it, without that conversation even entering, just actually connecting with them and saying like, "I see you and I understand what you're going through and I want to help you as an individual." Just propelled you into growth and is going to be, I mean, it's what is the number one thing brands have to do in 2020. And so the fact that you started with it, you're already ahead of the game.

Kristen:

And it just goes to show that when you connect to humans and you're selling to humans, not just someone behind a screen on the other side, it's hugely powerful to have that.

Karen: 

Yeah. Yeah. I remember reading, I think it might've been Web Smith, I think his name is on Twitter one day. I love DTC Twitter, by the way, if you are a part of it,

Kristen: 

It's a fun place.

Karen: 

Oh my gosh, the only reason I'm on Twitter. But he said, "You get your first a hundred customers or whatever, like one handshake at a time."

Karen: 

And that really resonated with me. By then, we were well past a hundred customers, but that was something that he tweeted like years after we had done that.

Karen: 

And it's really easy to, to feel like, "Oh my gosh, I'm not doing enough. I'm not doing the most or whatever." But, I just always believed in that, and the way we even think about it now, although we are well past a hundred customers, is how do we continue that same vain of that almost one-to-one conversation? How do we figure out how to scale that?

Kristen: 

Yeah. And I mean, I think this leads us perfectly into the next question which just, you kind of answered it, but I think we can expand on it a little bit. As Oui The People, as you are thinking about customer loyalty, customer attention, so this is really what the podcast is about. What is kind of the overarching way you're approaching it and you're thinking about it?

Karen: 

Yeah, so we are a small, small team. We are, it's literally me, my brand director and I have a marketing manager who works with us part-time right now.

Karen: 

So we have to think about how we divvy up our efforts in a way that actually makes sense and doesn't drive us absolutely crazy. And so what we've actually leaned on is email as our primary channel of communication with our audience.

Karen: 

We have a lot of fun on Instagram and we actually find that a lot of our customers follow us there as well. But we try to think about that type of conversation that like one-on-one almost type of conversation where literally like our customers are like DMing us. Like when I take them along, when I'm going to like PR desk side appointments, and like when we're doing behind the scenes and all that.

Karen: 

We literally take that feeling and we move it over to email. And much of it is seen outside of our, our flows actually. Our flows are beautiful, and they do what they're supposed to do but actually a good amount of it is seen in our campaigns. And that sort of a consistent dialogue-driven, conversation-driven community building that we're doing within email has been like a real driver of our success in the last year.

Kristen: 

Yeah, and I love that because I think there's a ... Especially with SMS becoming a big thing, I think there's this feeling kind of circling the email's a little bit dead or email is just kind of a sales channel. And, I mean I'm arguing against that all the time on Twitter, is that email is not dead. It's not even close to dead, and it's not a one-way channel, it is that two way channel. And actually just this morning, I got an email from you guys and I forwarded it to you and I was like, "We got to talk about your emails [crosstalk]. Because it's so ... You're bringing so much value into the emails. Like the one this morning, and I'm going to butcher this word too. You guys brought on a license, esthetician, did I do it?

Karen: 

Very close. Like to 98%.

Kristen: 

98% there. I'm close guys. We're getting closer. ... But you had this email it starts, and I will link this email and some more in the show notes as well.

Kristen: 

But, the face of this woman in her actual advice talking to the other person on this side of the screen, and there's a welcome invite to respond and actually have that feedback back and forth, which is huge. And I think even from the very beginning, you were saying that there were people that were just, you know, once you start building this community.

Kristen:

Then you have people coming to you with feedback and saying, "Hey, you guys did this so well. This is something else we could use from the brand." It just, I mean ... One, it opens up engagement and retention and LTV and all these things we're chasing after. But even more than that, it opens an entire new channel for your business to grow through.

Karen: 

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm never of the belief that anything is dead. I mean literally like we heard, what was it, I'd say like five or so years ago, five plus years ago. "Retail is dead. Retail is that we're only going to [inaudible] the consumer."

Karen: 

Yeah, I think we've seen by now that it's not dead. So I've never really want to kind of ... I'm with you. I'm not one to kind of jump on anything and say that, one thing is dead. I do think that shorter bursts of very personal communication is one of the things that we're going to see happening more in the future. And part of what you mentioned there with text messaging, and we're not doing that until we can do it absolutely well. Because I got to tell you, I can't tell you how many text messages I get where I'm like, "Stop, stop. Capital S-T-O-P, please stop.

Kristen: 

Why are you doing this to me? Stop.

Karen: 

So the way we think about it is anything, anything that allows us to get in front of our audience is not dead. It's more about how do we think about how everyone uses a particular channel and tailor our messaging within that channel in a way that's pleasurable, in a way that is truly engaging for the person on the other end. As opposed to just, "Oh by the way, we've got a 30% off sale, Did we mentioned it's 40% off now." You know? So yeah, that's really our position there.

Kristen: 

Yeah. And I obviously love that. And I love how you said it's about tailoring the messaging, and just because a channel doesn't work for the brand over there doesn't mean necessarily it's not going to work for your brand.

Kristen: 

And also, I can already hear it. Like if I was a listener listening to this, I'd be saying like, "Okay, but how, how, like how do you do this?"

Kristen: 

And I'm going to answer it for you. The answer is that you know your customers. That you spent all this time making sure you knew the stories, and the issues, and the values that they align with and all these little things. So that you're not asking, "How do we connect with the customer?" You're saying, "I know what they connect to, how do we just form it for this channel?" And that, I mean, it's got to be a huge leg up, I'm sure.

Karen: 

Yeah. And like I said, especially as a founder, you kind of like you, there's so many ... You open up like any issue of Inc or fast company or whatever and you're like, "Oh my God, what am I doing wrong?"

Kristen: 

Yup.

Karen:

But I build based on the human connection, and I think that's what we have done incredibly right. And so, for an example that like directly relates to emails, since we were just talking about that.

Karen:

Our welcome flow is one of the best converting for us. And the reason we find that outside of the campaigns because campaigns are just so much fun to develop, and we get to like actually talk to our customers.

Karen:

One of the ways we think about doing something even with like a welcome flow that makes it feel a little bit more authentic. Is in that flow, if a customer doesn't convert. We then address some of the issues that we know based on our customer data and feedback.

Karen: 

We're not all that different. Like it's very simple. There's probably going to be like one or two things that might be stopping you from making a purchase with a brand. And for us, we just try to address that in that flow. And what we find is that it's actually been converting incredibly well for us because it comes from a very, very, very human perspective.

Karen: 

We basically are like, "Hey, you know what, what stopped you from buying? Or actually, do you have any questions? [inaudible] at this email address, if you have any questions. But also, why don't you check out this list of frequently asked questions that may be able to help you even before that. Oh and by the way, is it a scary purchase for you? Okay, well this is what some of our community has said with regards to using this. And we have a 30 day return policy."

Karen: 

You know, we just really try to get to the heart of what we know some of those concerns are. And because it is addressed in a very ... I'm going to keep saying human throughout this [inaudible] any other way. It's not just like a faceless entity on the other end. We're always thinking about that human connection and what's really driving someone to make that purchase. And we always try to make sure that we address that.

Kristen: 

Yeah, and I mean I say nonstop on this podcast, like "Human, be a human." And I'm always trying to find other ways to say it, but there really is no other way to say it.

Kristen: 

It's just like, "I'm a human being who loves what I do and I'm trying to help you become a more successful human being, and happy human being in your life." And some of the things you mentioned in that and that welcome flow, like reviews, FAQ's, these are things that we see on blogs as like this is a major tactic you can do. Make sure that you're sending FAQ's, make sure that you're telling them about your reviews.

Kristen: 

But what I love that you did when you explain that is that you're not just talking about these tactics that every DTC brand out there knows. You're saying, "Okay, we know that maybe it's a scary purchase for our customers. And so this is what's going to help them."

Kristen: 

It's not just this blanket answer of we need to send social proof. It sounds like to me, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, every time you're thinking of, "Okay, we need to give them this piece of information." You're holding it up to the lens of, why? Why for our brand? Just because this blog says it. Does that mean it's right for our brand?

Karen: 

Yeah. Yeah. Everything for us goes through the, why? You know? And I have to say, I literally was not kidding when I say I like literally listen to your podcast like on the way into work and everything. And I've heard you talk a lot about ... I think you used like yoga club a lot as an example. And with regards to like churn and really thinking about like why a customer might be leaving the brand.

Karen: 

And so for us, like when we think about that ... At this point we're talking like closer to the top of the customer life cycle, right? So for us that's like when you actually enter our doors and you come into our house, so to speak. And the why of that is, what's actually going on? You know, it's not very easy to get a customer to sign up for email. I don't want anything else in my inbox ever. It's the most overwhelming place that I've ever gone. It turned into like some sort of like text hell over the last like 20 to 30 years. And I usually don't want very much to do with it.

Karen: 

And so if we are going to be in your inbox and it's already a stressful place, how can we think about like what's your day like? Like who are you generally? And, when you came to us, what exactly are you looking for? You're probably not looking for a razor necessarily. You're probably, maybe you're looking for, maybe it's going to be summer and you've got plans to travel or something and you want to look and feel amazing. Maybe you were like me, where it was like, you were just wearing clothes that just didn't feel comfortable because you were sort of hiding yourself.

Karen: 

And so what are the ... Like all of that stuff that we can kind of like drip down further and further into the funnel. Like what are we actually talking about there? We're probably talking about confidence a lot of the time. We have a lot of customers who want to be very, who are very aware of their environmental footprint. Like what does that person truly care about? And, how can we speak to them? And how were they trying to make sure that they appear their absolute best self that day?

Karen:

And so, those are the ways that we approach every single conversation with our customers. We're not just like parroting out to this kind of blind audience or whatever.

Karen:

It's just like if someone came and stood in front of me and I said to them, "You know what, you told me that you really liked those razor and you thought it was really nicely made and it was very pretty. But you had some reservations about it. Tell me more about that." Like what would that actually look like? You wouldn't say it 30% off to get it, right?

Kristen: 

Yeah.

Karen: 

You would be like, "Oh, so what, what was your hesitation? And, how can I be helpful?"

Kristen: 

So, I mean I have to ask because I have this curiosity. You are saying, like you're saying the gospel that I preach, pretty much. You're saying back the things that I'm always saying out there.

Kristen:

But my thing is, not every brand thinks like this. Actually, the majority of, I think founders and brands don't really think this in depth. Don't think about their customer stories. Don't really drive down into who are these people.

Kristen:

So I'm curious if you have any idea kind of anything from your past or maybe past experiences that you would attribute to your way of kind of approaching this business like this?

Karen:

I have an undergrad in psychology.

Kristen:

Ah yeah, there it is. Yup, that's how it connects. I mean that makes sense cause you learned how people tick basically.

Karen: 

Yeah. Yeah. And also, we're in the beauty industry. We're not in the grooming industry. We're not a personal care brand. You know what I mean? We're not like a whatever sort of fancy, the thing is that you sort of ... is the acronym for the day or whatever.

Karen: 

We're in the beauty industry and it's a very, very, very emotional industry to be in. And the purchases behind it, it's a little bit unique. People I think really want to be seen, and they really want to be heard.

Karen:

And so I think for us, we just kind of thought, well I am going to be the last person to say that like, "Oh, we are better than the Estee Lauder's or whatever of the world." They have been around for a very long time and it's not easy to be around for a long time. And, to do so at the growth that they have.

Karen: 

So despite the challenges that they may have connecting with audiences, we just kind of think, "Well, how can we use what we know works really well from that, from the incumbents of the world, and pair it with what we know works really well in this day and age. Which is we have this ability to really connect with our customers in a way that they never have before. And they're honestly having a very hard time catching onto.

Kristen:

Yeah. And that's really, I mean that's the way you beat Amazon or really any Goliath, especially in 2020 is going to be ... Amazon can offer free shipping, they can offer the lowest prices, they can do all this stuff. But, they can't create the irreplaceable relationships that we can do in smaller DTC, where you're actually able to have these one-on-one conversations.

Kristen: 

And something else I've been wondering about, is your product really is, it's this long lasting version of a product that for most women in their entire life has really been consumable. It's been replenishable and you replace your head every time you shave. And so I'm curious as to how you guys are thinking about kind of repeat business into the model if, if you're selling something that's changing the game there a little bit?

Karen: 

Yeah. So for us, I mean definitely our refill blades are a good portion of what drives our repeat purchases and then the components that go with that.

Karen: 

So we have our sugarcoat shave gel to milk, which is a really beautiful transforming gel that like has the most incredible ingredients. And just really protects your skin during shaving. And then, we're launching products that like really kind of like hone the body care category that we are building out at this point.

Karen: 

So we actually found that our repeat purchase rates have skyrocketed since the launch of the rebrand. And I think it's coming from the fact that we have been very, very thoughtful about the sort of products that, that kind of surround the razor and that whole process. And like we've really got to know all of the things that our customer is concerned about.

Karen: 

Like, if we hear that enough of our customers experience dry skin or considered themselves as like having sensitive skin or whatever, which is the case, we dive a little bit deeper into there. We basically try to think of ourselves as magicians when it comes to ... when it comes to building out our product pipeline.

Karen: 

And that's basically like, "What did she tell us?" You know, "Okay, if she's talking about dry skin, she's talking about sensitive skin. Like, what are the things that she's letting us know, but we can also figure out how to address and build in a way that she's not even expecting." And just think like next level and it's really the components that have surrounded the razor and the pipeline that we have coming up is absolutely incredible.

Karen: 

But, it's like thinking through that experience for her and it's just like, we don't launch in a shave gel because we think it's a cute, sort of counterpart. We launch it because having an oil actually on your skin not only allows a really beautiful buffer between your skin and the razor and like really fiercely protects it, and it makes your hair a lot softer to shave thus easier to remove. We also launch it because once you're done using it, the second you step out of the shower, you can actually go about your day. Like you don't have to worry about extra moisturizing and all of that.

Karen: 

And we try to make sure that the ingredients target a lot of the things that they've told us that they have issues with, and just wrap it all into a really stunning package and a really beautiful experience of unboxing, but also product use.

Kristen: 

Yeah. And you mentioned the rebrand, which I want to dive in because I find it really interesting and especially because you guys rebranded with such an active community who is giving you feedback on products and brands and all this.

Kristen: 

So I'm interested kind of what that process was like and how you took customer feedback and then put that into the rebrand?

Karen: 

Oh my God, it almost broke us. It was like, oh my gosh, we were so tired by the end of the year. Like neither of us could complete a sentence.

Kristen: 

Oh, I've been there.

Karen: 

So I think, when we approached the rebrand. We thought about it from a few perspectives. There is of course the sort of logo element and placement, and all of that.

Karen:

The second portion is the actual product. And the third portion is the sort of sustainability element. And so when we thought about the actual design, and the conceptual, and messaging and everything. Those were from even simple like Instagram polls and conversations with our customers.

Karen: 

And what I love about Instagram for us is that, we'll have customers like hop into our DM's and be like, "I didn't want to ask this in the regular whatever. But I just really wanted to tell you that this is what I'm experiencing and these are my issues."

Karen: 

And you just get to ... like, people just want to talk, they just talk. And, if you let them, if you give space and room and it's not just all about you and your brand, brand, brand. You actually can hear, so much about them. And, we learned that ... We kind of were like, "Well, how do you guys feel about this whole like anti-aging and flawless, and all this stuff?"

Karen: 

And most people were like, "Listen, I'm just so over it. Like beauty is changing. I mean it's literally changing right before our eyes in part because of Instagram, and these social platforms.

Karen: 

And we just have different demands and different needs now. And I think brands have to work really, really fast and a little bit deeper than they have been in order to meet them. Or else, it's going to be really, really obvious when you're faking it.

Karen: 

So we pulled some of that and kind of like sat down, and this took like close to a year for us to go from like concept and name, all the way to the final like brand launch that you see. And we said, "One of the things that people have kind of been telling us is like, I don't feel like I'm taking up like space." You know what I mean? Like, "I feel like I'm not being heard." And so on. And we were like, "Well, we're a team of women. Like, we totally get that. What if the brand visually just took up space? Like none of that diminutive, diminutive ..." I'm having a [inaudible].

Kristen:

It's contagious now.

Karen: 

None of that diminishing nonsense. Like, "What if we actually just took up every ounce of space on our bottles and had this really big heavy texts that was like, 'We are here, you can not tell us to shut up. You can not tell us to sit down. Nobody puts baby in a corner.'" You know?

Kristen: 

I love it.

Karen: 

And then, the red. I was just like, when you know, they talk about like how the beauty industry is, I'm going to say recession-proof. I don't know that anything is recession-proof, but I'll just throw that out there, kind of what they say or whatever.

Karen: 

And, there's like a story or something that I read that like, I think during World War II, like lipstick sales actually increased because women still wanted to feel beautiful, and still wanted to feel good. And this was like one small thing that they could do that really helped to boost their own, how they felt.

Karen: 

And I was just like, when I want to be as badass as possible, I hope I can throw that out there.

Kristen:

Yeah, you can.

Karen:

I grabbed for a red lipstick. And so, that's how we came to like the color red. Like that sense of like what's one of the most empowering things that we do as women. We reach for color, we reach for like a small thing that's sort of like a real boost.

Karen: 

And I was just like, I want you to feel like you're reaching for your power red lipstick when you reach for like a bottle of featherweight and like use that body oil on yourself. And then you go about the day knowing that yeah, you're hydrated but you look fucking amazing.

Kristen: 

Yeah.

Karen: 

And then, the second portion was the product. And so that was like literally, that was more data-driven. That was literally like we have surveys, we have talked to customers, we have called customers, we have sent out emails, we've done Instagram stuff. We have like had DM conversations.

Karen:

Like tell me everything about your skin and how we can do better by you. And that's how we built out our entire product line with attention to detail. You know, for the actual ingredients, what they do. Everything we make is performance driven.

Karen: 

But also like, something as simple as the first things that we're releasing don't have any scent, because so many of our customers are actually very, very sensitive to scent. And so yeah, it was the first thing that we did.

Kristen: 

Yeah. And just on that, I feel like it's a big thing like turning beauty on its head a little bit. Where I feel like for the past, especially geared towards women, the message from a lot of brands has always been here's what you need to be beautiful enough. "Here's what you need, here's what we think that you need to live up to some expectation that we have set for you." Versus, what's kind of happening now, and especially what you guys are doing is, "What do you need? And how can we help you get to the person that you want to be."

Karen: 

Yeah. The future of beauty is customer led as I like to think of it. And I don't think anyone is going to survive with that same sort of old perspective of let me just do whatever we think is cool, or let me just go by whatever ingredient is sort of having a moment.

Karen: 

It's a very short lived story. We want to be the brand for the people for the next hundred years, not for the next like 10 years.

Kristen: 

Yeah. Yeah. And before I ask you this next question, I'm going to transition to it nicely.

Kristen: 

Something that I just want to point out that I love hearing from you again and again, is just putting everything up to the light of the customers.

Kristen: 

So even like you just talking about how you chose the color red, was it because red symbolizes confidence because red, it like is this color that people say like, "Oh, it's a strong color." Or because you liked red?

Kristen:

You thought all the way down into the experience of the color red for your customers. And that's such a deep way to think about something that ... I think a lot of people think branding is just like this fun aspect of it that we just like, "Oh we choose this, it's beautiful, our customers are going to love it."

Kristen: 

But you guys went even a step further to say, "We're going to brand it in a way that gives the experience and the feeling that we're aiming that these customers actually want to get from us." So just the fact that everything goes through that light of the customer experience is really, really powerful.

Kristen: 

So just kind of wrapping up into a few questions I have. This is one of my favorite questions. I usually get a lot of really fun things come out of it. From all this time you've spent kind of building the brand, building Oui The People. Can you recount like a really cool customer story from it?

Karen:

Yeah, I think it would have been my very first, my very first one, which really stuck with us. I got to the point where I was like ... I started printing out some of our customer messages, and just putting it up around the office and in front of us.

Karen:

Because running a startup is so bloody hard. And I was just like, just keep looking up. Just keep ... Just look up and remember ... Like people are taking time out of their day to be like, "You have changed my life by changing my skin."

Karen: 

And that is just like so incredibly powerful. But I think the first one that sort of like set it off for us was a woman who emailed and said, "I haven't worn skirts or shorts in over 20 years because I was so, I just didn't feel confident in my skin. And since I started using your razor, I have actually been able to dress the way that I want to. And I just wanted to let you know that." And I was like, excuse me while I sit here and just ball, like straight up ugly crying.

Kristen: 

Yeah [crosstalk].

Karen: 

Yeah.

Kristen: 

That's amazing. I mean, I love that because it's, it goes to the whole idea of we're selling more than products, and how can you be more than products?

Kristen: 

You can look at it and say, "All right, Oui The People sell shaving cream, shaving supplies, and a razor." Or you can really look at it and say, "No, we, the people sell confidence and confidence in your own skin."

Kristen: 

And that's so much more powerful, and I love that you print out the customer messages and just remind people like, "Look up, look at what we're doing. This is so much more than just some products that we're selling."

Karen:

Yeah, yeah. All of our meetings as well. You know, we go through everything. And then at the end of the meeting we sit there and we look through all of our ideas and we say, "Okay, what's actually about our customer in this?" And that's usually how we come down to like what we're going to take action on.

Kristen:

Yeah. I love it. So, on the side of growing. What's something that's really surprised you guys as a team, as you've grown the brand?

Karen: 

... Let's see. ... You know, I think I've just been surprised that it's a lot of fun. I know people like sort of paint this start up is like a dark, lonely, awful place where you know, you're, you're going to get like harangued by your boss and you have to work until like 10 o'clock at night, seven days, you know?

Karen: 

And it's just like if we're building, if we're building opportunities for our customers to feel good, we probably can't do it unless we actually feel good.

Karen: 

And so, yeah, we work our butts off. But, we also have a lot of fun in the process. And it's an absolute joy to be able to really actually connect with our customers and hear back from them. And, we've got people who are like inviting us out to dinner and stuff.

Kristen: 

Which is amazing.

Karen:

Oh, this is great.

Kristen: 

Yeah, I love that. Okay. Last question, since I know that you're a longterm thinker here, where do you hope to see Oui The People in say three to five years?

Karen:

Yeah, so I would like us, there's a very, very interesting and specific niche that we are building for which you'll see as you know, we sort of develop over the next year or two.

Karen: 

I'd like us to just be one of the meeting body care brands in the world. It's a really interesting space that I don't think has had a lot of attention driven to it. And oh man, the products that we have in our pipeline are just, they've been so much fun to make and they are so much fun to make. And I think we're really going to set the world on fire.

Kristen:

I think you guys are too. So exciting. I'm excited to follow you guys as growth this year for sure.

Kristen: 

Well thank you so much for coming on. This is such a wonderful conversation. You're making my heart so happy to hear how you guys are so customer-centric with everything.

Kristen: 

I think this is the way that you have to do it, and you guys are doing it from day one, so it's going to be amazing, and I can't wait to watch you guys grow.

Karen: 

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's been so much fun to actually be on this. I can't promise that I can listen to my own episode though, because I absolutely hate hearing myself talk.

Karen: 

But yeah, it's been so much fun, to be honest, especially since I really do listen to it every week.

Kristen: 

Amazing. Thank you so much for the support too.

Karen: 

Yeah.