Turning Discomfort into Subscription Gold with MANSCAPED

Kristen LaFrance: (00:42)

Today, we're talking about balls, no joke. Well, actually, scratch that. We make a lot of jokes in this episode. Manscaped is one of the most popular and fastest growing subscriptions on the market. How do you take a topic as seemingly uncomfortable as shaving your down there into a thriving business?

Kristen LaFrance: (01:03)

Senior VP of growth Ben Acott and I dive into the strategic ways they leverage humor, technology and delight to spark a new conversation and drive their insanely high retention rate with their customers. Let's get into the weeds.

Kristen LaFrance: (01:16)

Hey, Ben. Welcome on the show. I am super excited to talk to you today. I know we were supposed to have you and Kane on today but I hear he has lost his voice and there's a sickness going around, so we will have Kane on next season for sure, but I'm so glad you are joining us. How are you doing today?

Ben Acott: (01:32)

Doing fabulous, Kristen. Thanks so much for inviting us to come onto the podcast. Yeah, Kane was extremely disappointed. There's a bit of Manscaped flu going around the office, being this time of year, so, yeah, he's an apology, but I'm excited to chat to you and hope share some Manscaped love with yourself and with your audience.

Kristen LaFrance: (01:49)

Yeah, let's do it. Can you start off by telling us a little bit about yourself, your role with Manscaped, and then for those who don't know, who is Manscaped? What do you guys do?

Ben Acott: (01:58)

Awesome, sounds like fun. First of all, myself, I am lucky enough to be SVP of growth here at Manscaped. Lucky to work across the entire business. [inaudible 00:02:12], we have the ability to grow the company, so that often means expansion into international markets which is a big focus of ours right now. It relates to growth of our team and the culture behind the company and it also covers product, all the great products that we're working on in terms of customer facing hard products, and also the customer experience through our digital channels, as well, so, super varied, really fun job.

Ben Acott: (02:40)

Been here just on 10 months now. I have been within the e-commerce space for around 15 years, almost exclusively within subscription.

Kristen LaFrance: (02:49)

Exciting.

Ben Acott: (02:51)

Obviously from Australia, started a company down there that really drove e-commerce subscription for the wine industry down there, and in my opinion, the wine industry has been doing subscription better than anyone for many, many, many years. We developed a platform around that, and then joined Manscaped in all its crazy growth 10 months ago and I can tell you, it's a completely different company than what it was back then in terms of head count and features and products and everything else like that. It's been fun.

Kristen LaFrance: (03:23)

Yeah. Watching you guys grow has been so much fun, and I got lucky enough to meet a lot of you guys in your team at ChargeX last year which was just so much fun. You guys have the most, I don't even know how to say it, addicting culture of just fun and hilarity, and we're going to get into that which I'm really excited about. I think it's really interesting that you have this background in e-commerce subscriptions.

Kristen LaFrance: (03:45)

I'm a really big fan of subscriptions. I think they're super powerful, and the market's only going to get bigger. I'm curious, why are you driven to the subscription market specifically?

Ben Acott: (03:56)

Our products, which is unique to, I guess, below the waist grooming. It has a strong tie to hygiene, so if you look at some of the other products on the market that aren't specifically engineered or designed for the groin area, it's kind of weird that you'd take your face shaver and then attack your balls with them to trim down there.

Kristen LaFrance: (04:17)

Yep.

Ben Acott: (04:19)

Hygiene plays a big part, so we talk a lot about skin-safe technology and ensuring that we have the right tools for the job, and with that comes replaceable blades. In most cases, our subscribers receive a fresh, brand new blade every three months, so it just keeps things fresh down there. It also keeps things really sharp, so you get a brand new experience every three months which in itself is part retention right there. It feels like a new trimmer every time you use it.

Kristen LaFrance: (04:46)

Yeah, and that's a really good point and that leads me to my next question. I really liked how you talked about how expansive your role is and how growth goes from everything from marketing to internal growth to retention to products and customer experience. I'm curious, kind of, what is your guys' high level view and importance that you put on customer retention. How are you guys really approaching it right now?

Ben Acott: (05:08)

Yeah, huge question and it's never done. We're addicts of testing. We test absolutely everything, especially when it comes to subscription in terms of optimizing the subscription journey from that. The biggest drop off, I guess, globally, within the subscription business within e-commerce is that I've got too much of the product, and that's where most customers churn globally.

Ben Acott: (05:30)

For us, with the hygiene play and the communication and narrative around that, it just seems to provide a lot more cut through into our churn. The other big thing with subscription is we use that platform to test the products, so like I said, we ship you brand new blades every three months, but included inside that package every three months is a gift, and it's not just a sample size of something.

Ben Acott: (05:55)

It's a full size gift, usually included, in fact, in every case, worth more than what the subscription itself is worth.

Kristen LaFrance: (06:00)

Oh, wow.

Ben Acott: (06:01)

We get to delight customers when they open the box every 12 weeks. They're excited to open it up and to see what's in there. On your first three month gift, we give you access to the plow, which is our single blade safety razor, so we're getting customers then into new products and we use that as a platform to iterate and make improvements on the products at every step.

Ben Acott: (06:26)

It also, then, exposes them to other products within the lineup. Our cornerstone hero product is our Lawnmower. Almost the bulk of our transactions are geared around the Lawnmower and the replenishment, what we're really focused on, is using that to exposing the new products and then also to test new products before they hit the market.

Ben Acott: (06:49)

What we're working really hard on now is developing a community to test and learn and, like I said, to iterate, time and time again with the product.

Kristen LaFrance: (06:58)

Yeah, and it's so powerful to have that subscription. That's another aspect of subscriptions that I think has a really strong power that people tend to overlook is that, when you have people on subscription you have these opportunities that you don't with single purchase customers. You have these opportunities to delight, to bring them gifts like this, to expose them to new products, to then use those people almost as testers for new products, and then that just keeps feeding into the business decisions that you're making.

Ben Acott: (07:27)

Totally.

Kristen LaFrance: (07:27)

I also do have to note, for the listeners, the Lawnmower is amazing. I am not a man but I have things to scape and it is truly amazing of a product. Just kind of clarifying on that, are you saying the biggest thing, people come in, is they buy that Lawnmower and then after that is there a mission to upsell them into more of a subscription, or where do you see people coming in first in the journey?

Ben Acott: (07:52)

The rates of subscription versus single checkout is crazy higher, so naturally, people are coming to use to subscribe. It's actually quite rare that customers come to our website and opt for a single checkout, so our UI, UX, CRO teams do a fantastic job to ensure that we communicate the benefits of subscription to be sure that that comes in from there, but of course there's an [inaudible 00:08:18] metric tied to why we do this.

Ben Acott: (08:22)

We're lucky enough that we back our products in that much that we have a very high conversion rate from a customer getting a free gift to then subscribing and then bundling that product into their next subscription, as well.

Kristen LaFrance: (08:38)

Yeah.

Ben Acott: (08:38)

There's definitely a business decision there tied to revenue, as well, but that's it. It's interesting. We went through almost all of 2019 without a product release, so that sometimes makes it hard to stay innovative with what gift goes in, but it's crazy now, in 2020, we're building out our product team from a couple of people through to a full department now to deploy, hopefully, if we hit what we think we're going to hit, 20 new products in 2020.

Kristen LaFrance: (09:05)

Wow.

Ben Acott: (09:05)

The program that we've created around gifting is critical to the success of that. One extra step that we take, if it's not a subscription gift, is we kind of almost create a moat or wall against new product releases and we reserve them for subscribers only, so you can only access them through the subscriber portal. Again, it's just another perk of subscribing, is you get access to new products before the mass market or retail or any other sort of channel gets them.

Kristen LaFrance: (09:32)

Yeah, and that's a tactic I've actually been talking about a lot in the subscription space is that a lot of subscriptions are becoming, and are being force to become, more than just the convenience of a delivery and a lower price, is that there's a big retention play that you can do by building off that kind of exclusivity, like you were saying, only releasing new products to subscribers, really drives those, I think, deeper relationships and builds that community you're talking about that you guys are working to build.

Kristen LaFrance: (10:00)

On that, as you guys are looking at community, where are you really looking to build that out? How are you strategizing how you get those customers connected into a larger community space?

Ben Acott: (10:11)

We have diehard fans, right? It's crazy. I think it obviously starts with the humor in the marketing. We get them in and they get to experience the product. I mentioned before, retention rate is crazy high. Even just recently we've started to create a Facebook group around that community to encourage ideas and discussion and that sense of community from that. In addition, the subscriber portal is a huge focus of ours, as well.

Ben Acott: (10:36)

We want to encourage engagement away from just getting the subscription every three months. We want touchpoints in between cycles as much as possible. Through that is, like I said, dropping new products and giving them first access to new content that we create. We're lucky enough that our content is awesome. We're extremely proud of how we generate and craft that all in house. It's just another perk, and I guess, benefit, of just saying, "Hey, we're dropping this. We wanted you guys to be the first."

Ben Acott: (11:07)

A cool example was that we launched our 3.0 Lawnmower just this week and again we dropped that around, I think, 12 hours before we pushed it out to mainstream media, and we got them accessing it for a slightly reduced price so they could get it in their hands first. That really fuels how we do our own product marketing and launches, as well, is leveraging our subscriber bases to fuel growth.

Kristen LaFrance: (11:34)

Yeah, and I love that, and especially the point on investing in the subscriber portal and really trying to get those touchpoints in between shipments is so important for subscriptions. A lot of subscriptions fall short here, is something I've been recognizing, and now we have to get into the topic of your guys' humor in your marketing because it's amazing. When I was doing background research for this I spent four hours going through your YouTube videos and I was dying laughing.

Kristen LaFrance: (12:02)

The influencer photo shoot is one of my favorite things ever. Can you just talk a little bit on that as how you guys developed this really humorous brand voice?

Ben Acott: (12:13)

Yeah. We tested in the early days what resonated, and the almost somewhat taboo topic of manscaping, most men do it. We have data that we know that most American men manscape in some way, but talking about it wasn't really something that men felt comfortable with. Early on, we adopted a humor strategy and really placed emphasis on compelling video content that was shareable, that sort of made the topic easier and made it accessible to share, which, if we didn't have humor, we wouldn't enjoy the virality of what [inaudible 00:12:52] creative, right?

Kristen LaFrance: (12:52)

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ben Acott: (12:54)

That's really been the cornerstone of our, I guess, top of the funnel messaging. We start the concept or introduce the concept of manscaping through humor. We proudly do everything in house, as well, so our marketing team, which makes up most of the company, is just a powerhouse. We strategize from the concept through to shooting through to post production through to launch, everything in house. That enables us to do shit really, really quickly.

Ben Acott: (13:23)

One example of that is we had a crazy idea for a shoot and within a week, that was planned, shot, and then pushed out within a seven day process. That enables us to be really timely and relevant based on what's happening out in the world and it just makes it so it has more virality based on the timeliness of how we release.

Kristen LaFrance: (13:42)

Yeah, and now I have to ask because I feel like this is just right there, you guys kind of walk this line with humor sometimes. In 2020, obviously the society is shifting and there's all these things and there's a lot of internet trolls and warriors out there. How do you maintain this, kind of, dude humor that you take on without crossing any boundaries?

Ben Acott: (14:02)

Well, we've crossed some boundaries. We've done some pretty-

Kristen LaFrance: (14:06)

You have to a little bit, right?

Ben Acott: (14:08)

Yeah, exactly. Early on, we've definitely gone hard on the wow factor and the, "Oh shit, I can't believe I just watched that," kind of creative. Unfortunately, as we definitely grow and we start to have relationships with more corporate partners, be it potentially investors or our large scale retail partners, we do have a little bit more responsibility with the kind of content that we push out, which comes with its own vetting process, I guess, but we're always finding that perfect balance, right?

Ben Acott: (14:42)

It's challenging because balls, the word balls is part of our core messaging and it always will be, and we'll never change that, so it's our job to kind of introduce the concept of it but just make sure that we don't offend too many people, but I see the people that we do offend write in and we get a bunch of, obviously, a lot of positive feedback with that creative.

Ben Acott: (15:03)

We do, naturally, sometimes offend more conservative audiences, but it's interesting. We see that as, they're not exposed to the concept of manscaping and I see them as really top of the funnel opportunities that we can hopefully, over time, get them in. It's a fine art and we're doing a great job of balancing that out now as we grow.

Kristen LaFrance: (15:24)

Yeah, you guys really are, because your content is hilarious, there's no way around it. I have a shirt that I love to wear around town because it says ... What is the slogan about balls? It's on the T-shirt. Now I can't remember it.

Ben Acott: (15:37)

We have, "Your balls will thank you."

Kristen LaFrance: (15:39)

Yes, that's the one. I love walking around town with that because I'm just like, I know that there's so many people so confused by this T-shirt and it makes me so happy, because it's just so bold. It's so bold and it's catchy and it's out there, and it sounds like you guys just put a lot of work into understanding the problem around the conversation or how men were struggling to have that conversation and then turning that into an opportunity for actually two way dialog instead of, kind of, preaching at men.

Ben Acott: (16:10)

Yeah. In a way, it's interesting how we approach the topic, is we introduce men to the concept of manscaping and the brand Manscaped through humor, but once we get them through to the website, it's all about the sophistication of the products and how skin-safe we are. We want to build trust with them taking to their balls with this crazy machine that they don't know nothing about.

Ben Acott: (16:36)

We want to make sure we build in the concept of, this is the right tool for the job. A lot of R&D and sophistication and manufacturing processes have gone into this. We want to build trust to, obviously, initiate the checkout, and if we didn't do that, we could potentially be perceived in market as being more of a gag gift, but the reality is that there's a lot of technology inside of our trimmer and there always will be, and we're constantly advancing that. We're always looking for R&D processes and ways to improve that skin-safe technology.

Ben Acott: (17:15)

That really is the mission of our product team, and I guess, the company, is how we continue to do that.

Kristen LaFrance: (17:17)

Yeah, and it's an impressive balance to hold the standard of really high quality, sophisticated, high tech with also humor, and you guys do such a good job of it. Why do you think that that balance ... Really, do you think it's impacted the ability to retain customers? My guess, and I guess this is kind of the question I'm posing, did you think that balance has created a much more open dialog for your customers to actually come back to you and have two way conversations that you can actually then use to retain more customers?

Ben Acott: (17:48)

Yeah, absolutely. I think, first and foremost, if the product didn't stand on its own, we couldn't have retention, so we're lucky enough to enjoy really low churn rates. Once they get through humor, it's really up to the sophistication of the product to keep and retain, but in saying that, it's always a delicate balance. I guess, most brands, if they're similar to us, they'll have two choices. You either over-engage with the community or you go dark on them, so once they activate that subscription, you don't advertise to them, you don't email them, except for the frequency of the transaction emails.

Ben Acott: (18:26)

You kind of have two options with that. What we're really now working on is super engagement across our subscriber base, and again, that's always tested, so we test really heavily on what we send and when we send it, like that, but again, we definitely invite and are lucky enough to enjoy a pretty significant size or portion of our subscriber base inside of our customer Facebook group or subscriber group, as well.

Kristen LaFrance: (18:53)

Yeah, that's awesome. As far as really increasing that engagement, because that's such a big part of, what we were talking about way earlier in the conversation, having the focus on digital touchpoints as another side of growth and retention. A lot of that really is the engagement that you're talking about. What channels and things have you guys started to test in terms of upping the engagement?

Ben Acott: (19:17)

We will create a segment or an audience, let's just say, on Facebook or Instagram, where we drop new product announcement of releases, and that only goes out to subscribers, again, to get them back to log in to the subscriber portal where we can talk about the upcoming release. We make available that product earlier than anyone else, as well, so, most of it's product-driven, and like I mentioned, if we hit our target of dropping 20 new products throughout 2020, we've got a lot to talk about from that. It's really early access, and that's the core focus right now.

Kristen LaFrance: (19:50)

Yeah, and it's such a strong place to start is having that exclusivity, like we talked about. Can you give us any hints on these products that you guys are dropping?

Ben Acott: (20:00)

Kind of secret, but we're always iterating and reiterating our hero product, the Lawnmower. On the roadmap for 2020 will be the 4.0. That's always a big focus, and because it is our cornerstone product, that impacts the design and the aesthetic and the design language of every other product out there. I can say that we are venturing into skin care. That will drop later this quarter, later in Q1, but again, it's been almost a two year R&D process to make sure that, one, do we have the right to enter into the face?

Ben Acott: (20:40)

We're a groin-centric brand, so this is a big move for us, so we want to understand, do we have the ability to build the trust and to entice our subscribers to use our skin care potentially for the face?

Kristen LaFrance: (20:53)

Yeah.

Ben Acott: (20:54)

But, using that process to just take it slow, test, make sure that we have a really strong product lineup that we validate that with our tribe or our really close customers, as well. We have many products that are also still in secret mode. We're expanding more products for the groin. One interesting stuff that came out, and I don't want to shock your listeners too much, but we never really understood the difference of men that go completely bald down there versus just trim, so we conducted surveys, again, with our subscribers, to ask the question, "How do you manscape and how often do you manscape?"

Ben Acott: (21:34)

Shockingly, way more than what we thought of respondents came back that we actually go full bald, yet we don't have the full product lineup to support that, so that's a really big focus of ours, and, yeah, stoked to say that at some point soon we will have a full product lineup for that purpose.

Kristen LaFrance: (21:55)

That's so interesting. I also love the number of times we've said the words groin and balls on this episode. It just makes me really happy to have this as an episode.

Ben Acott: (22:05)

I'm completely desensitized to the whole thing.

Kristen LaFrance: (22:08)

Oh, I'm sure.

Ben Acott: (22:09)

I'm sure, if you're a fly on the wall at some of the product meetings that we have, it's a lot of fun. We don't hold back, but when I talk about balls in public, you get the V eyebrow person and we always back it in with humor and then suddenly it becomes okay.

Kristen LaFrance: (22:24)

Yes, and then it's okay to talk about it and there's an open conversation which is really the key to the entire brand of Manscaped there, is that you guys found that unlocking of a conversation and then really just driving an engaged conversation after that. In the past few years or a year or so, you guys have obviously really invested a lot into retention through products, through engaging through the subscription and all this stuff.

Kristen LaFrance: (22:48)

Do you have a top one to three tactics that you guys have employed that you would say, this is really helping us drive our retention up?

Ben Acott: (22:58)

It's been easier for us to retain a customer, again, through the gifting strategy, just wowing them and taking them away from that, "Oh, great, another subscription." We tend not to talk about gifting too much, you know, a free purchase. It's more about delighting them after the fact.

Kristen LaFrance: (23:17)

Yeah.

Ben Acott: (23:18)

At three months, they open their box and they've got a product in there, a brand new fresh blade, obviously first, but then they have a gift in there worth 40, 50, 60 dollars, that just reaffirms their commitment. That's always been the biggest win for us, and we're getting better, again, with how we communicate, again. It's a nonstop testing process for us, but I would say that that is the number reason why we have such a high retention rate.

Kristen LaFrance: (23:45)

Yeah. I think it makes so much sense just because there's so much surprise and delight really built in, and those can get really buzzy as words in the subscription space, but there is nothing that can replace that completely new Christmas feeling that a lot of subscriptions were kind of started on the basis of feeling like a monthly Christmas gift or a quarterly Christmas gift.

Kristen LaFrance: (24:06)

Being able to give that to customers, and I want to really highlight for the listeners, the fact that you guys don't really market this as part of the subscription. It really is a full focus on surprising and delighting the existing customers and that's so powerful. I know your guys' retention rate is insane. It's so cool to see.

Kristen LaFrance: (24:26)

Just wrapping up, can you tell us if you have a favorite customer story from building Manscaped? I feel like you guys have got to have some good ones.

Ben Acott: (24:35)

We have many, we have many. It's funny. What I love seeing is the older guys that come through that just, on paper, aren't part of our core demo, but they come in and the feedback's candid, but how it's improved their sex life. They're 60 years or 70 years old. I get a kick out of that.

Kristen LaFrance: (24:55)

Amazing.

Ben Acott: (24:57)

One thing that we really take seriously, we developed and formed a really valuable relationship with the Testicular Cancer Society around the middle of last year, and it's not like it's a proceeds of fun sales. We have a really deep partnership with them and we drive a lot of video content and public service announcements with that, and again, within our subscription boxes we remind men to check their balls for lumps.

Ben Acott: (25:27)

So far, to date, we've had eight men write in and mention that they've found lumps and they were cancerous and we helped them identify them before it got any bad. We're lucky with testicular cancer that if you find it early, it's treatable. It's not like other cancers, but we've so far saved eight men, and that's really formed part of the mission of everything we do. That's definitely my favorite.

Kristen LaFrance: (25:50)

Yeah. That's amazing. I have a personal connection to that. My dad is actually a testicular cancer survivor, so I kind of know a lot about diagnosis and the process. I remember, after he kind of went through it, he really became very dedicated to the idea of, you have to talk to men about this because if they know then there's so much you can do to prevent it. That's so cool. I knew about you guys' partnership there.

Kristen LaFrance: (26:15)

Totally meant to bring it up earlier, because it's such a deep and important partnership for your core audience. Hearing that you've been able to hear back from customers, like, "Hey, you actually were an integral part in me finding out something about my health," is such a powerful story and really just shows how much Manscaped is committed to more than just selling products. You're really committed to helping the people that you're serving with your products.

Ben Acott: (26:40)

For sure, and again, the reason that has been so successful and also relevant to Manscaped is we've tackled it with humor, as well. Within the subscription boxes, it's very lighthearted. It obviously has a very deep and serious side to it, but we're teaching men to take it lightly, but don't be afraid to get under there and have a feel around. Again, we're driving that humor to make it easier to understand and not an embarrassing thing, something to be ashamed of.

Kristen LaFrance: (27:09)

Yeah, a much more comfortable experience for them which is so, so important.

Ben Acott: (27:13)

Yeah.

Kristen LaFrance: (27:14)

What's something that's really surprised you as you have been with Manscaped and watched the business grow?

Ben Acott: (27:20)

It's got to be the growth rate of how fast we're growing, not only as a company but also the rate of the subscription. Like I mentioned, and I can't mention the statistic, but by a long way, more men are checking out as subscribers than they are single purchases. That's really valuable, and I think spending a lot of time in the subscription space, for both a little bit of offering both single and subscription, it's usually around that 40, 60 mark of more men, obviously, but we're a lot, lot higher than that.

Ben Acott: (27:53)

That's been really surprising for me, and then, again, the ability to retain our customers. Retention rates are crazy high, like we keep talking about, and that's allowed us to make decisions and grow the business further as we start to absorb what is a higher and higher cap, globally. It's been a beautiful beast to be a part of and we're still very much in the infancy of it.

Kristen LaFrance: (28:17)

Yeah. I do have to ask, what do you think attributes to that really high rate of men coming in and just opting in for the subscription when that's so difficult for a lot of brands to even get single purchase customers to then think about subscription. What do you think it is that you guys have done in your marketing in top funnel stuff that's really driven that subscription program over single purchase?

Ben Acott: (28:39)

For me, it's the hard work that our CRO guys do on explaining the reasons why. It's not so much about the saving. There is a savings tied to subscribing, but it's really about the hygiene side. We don't want you to nick your balls, and the best way to combat that is to subscribe. We actually use a ceramic material in our blades that is actually designed to wear down over use, and that ensures that it's really sharp every time, but it also means that there is a motivation there to replace. The product has been engineered specifically for that, so I think it's really baked into the product, and then how we communicate that, so it's not like checking out on, say, a vitamin product that's nice to have on subscription. I might save, 5, 10, 15%, and it's something that's set and forget, but we really have a medical and a hygiene product play tied into the subscription strategy.

Kristen LaFrance: (29:37)

Yeah, that's so powerful, and especially, really, not only built into the product design, but also really built into the storytelling and the information you're putting out for the customer so that they know you're not just being tricked into a subscription that's going to be hard to cancel out of. You're actually being put into the right thing for you, that this is what you're looking for and what you really need when you come to the site, so I love that.

Kristen LaFrance: (30:00)

Last question before we wrap up, where do you see Manscaped in three to five years?

Ben Acott: (30:06)

Huge question. We have huge aspirations. We want to become a staple of men's grooming, and become part of more the daily ritual, and inside a man's bathroom you may see for our five Manscaped products and we want to be part of that day to day, so that's really the vision of the company right now, and then reach the visibility and accessibility of our products globally. That's another big part of us, as well, but we're really just committed to creating a range of products for the groin category and beyond that are specifically engineered and designed for that purpose, in helping men through the grooming and the manscaping journey, so starting with one thing and opening them up to new possibilities. Yeah, that's really our vision right now.

Kristen LaFrance: (30:53)

Yeah, it's so exciting. I'm super excited to watch you guys grow and continue to grow, and we're going to keep connecting back with you. Obviously, we have to get Kane on the podcast at some point, so we will be, for sure, keeping in touch with you. Thank you so much, Ben, for coming on. This was such an interesting interview. Love hearing the real specific tactics you guys have and your amazing retention rates.

Ben Acott: (31:16)

Awesome, Kristen. It's been fun. Thanks so much for having us on.